Last September, Bess Freedman, the CEO of Brown Harris Stevens, attended the Asian Real Estate Association of America conference in New York City. The keynote speaker, Red Apple Group's chairman and CEO John Catsimatidis, mentioned Dr. Christine Blasey Ford's Senate Judiciary Committee testimony and Judge Brett Kavanaugh's Supreme Court nomination.

Catsimatidis referred to the alleged sexual assault as a "romp" between two teenagers, 36 years ago. He expressed incredulity over disqualifying someone from a job "because they fooled around in high school" adding, "Give me a break. Where are these Democrats coming from?"

To Freedman, Blasey Ford's testimony was not about politics. And, she saw Catsimatidis' comments as an affront on women in general.

At a nearby table, guest and speaker following Catsimatidis, Freedman stood up and told him that he was out of line. "You don't know the facts. Please stick to real estate!" she told Catsimatidis before the filled room. Freedman's view was that Catsimatidis "was not giving any credibility to this woman who was a survivor coming forward."

"That he felt comfortable in that space in New York City to say what he said—to not even think it was an issue—really shocked me. To choose to not believe somebody who has the courage to come out and say what has happened—that shows you how comfortable men feel that they can do that," says Freedman, explaining her actions.

Catsimatidis took a different view of the Kavanaugh hearing. "If something happened to you, you should absolutely say it," Catsimatidis says. "But do it within five or 10 years at most. If it impacts someone else's life after five years, it ought to be limited."

Arthur Rosenfield, special projects for Red Apple Group, says Catsimatidis was not defaming or trying to make a negative statement about women at the AREAA event. He says Catsimatidis invited Freedman to come to the podium to express her views.

"John was making a point that everything that happens in Washington affects real estate in New York City, and Washington is going crazy with a lot of division. It was a valid, important point," says Rosenfield. "I don't think John should be treated in any way that he was making a statement about women."

HOW TIMES HAVE NOT CHANGED

"I am woman, hear me roar, in numbers too big to ignore," sang musical artist Helen Reddy in her song that hit the No. 1 spot on the Billboard chart in December 1972. That was 47 years ago, and a month later, the US Supreme Court passed its landmark decision Roe v. Wade.

But as Freedman's—and Catsimatidis'—experiences at the same event show, very little has changed when the sexes communicate about certain issues.

Two people can hear the same story: one will believe a sexual assault took place, and the other will see a consentual encounter between two young teenagers.

This difference in perspective is at the crux as to why the genders disagree on other matters, such as gender pay and discrimination.

Whatever the reason, it is inarguable that not enough progress has been made in how women are treated in the workplace—including commercial real estate.

Sexual assault, harassment, discrimination, and at times, the lack of basic levels of respect for women are still rampant despite the #MeToo movement of the last few years. As for commercial real estate, it remains a particularly male-dominated profession.

"Women don't get the same pay and they are not in positions of power when it comes to commercial or residential real estate," Freedman says. "It's still very much a Boys' Club. The owners of firms are men. There are very few women who have an actual piece of the pie. Therefore they don't have the same influence and ability to do certain things that men do."

There's still a bit of a tussle to try to get an equal standing with men, she continues. "It's still a challenge for people to speak out, especially when they are not in a strong position."

Indeed, it is telling that few women were willing to speak on the record with anecdotes of their experiences or those of peers describing incidents of sexual harassment and discrimination for this article. Many women acknowledged there were problems but declined to be interviewed—fearing negative repercussions for their firm or their own careers. Although thoroughly understandable, such responses sketch a prevailing atmosphere that hinders change.

News headlines hint at the larger problems that so often go unacknowledged.

Last year billionaire Sam Zell, the founder and chairman of the real estate investment firm Equity International, caused an uproar, which was reported in several publications. When speaking at the REIT trade association Nareit's annual conference, he stated his beliefs in meritocracy, and claimed to never promote or demote a woman based on her gender, adding, "I don't think there's ever been a 'We gotta get more p— on the block, OK?'"

Zell apologized to Nareit for using the vulgarity, according to the Wall Street Journal.

Also, last year, former casino mogul Steve Wynn resigned as chairman of Wynn Resorts after the Wall Street Journal reported allegations of sexual assault and harassment. Often credited with transforming the Las Vegas Strip with the opening of the Mirage Resort & Casino, Wynn has been accused of multiple claims of sexual misconduct ranging from raping and impregnating a manicurist resulting in a $7.5-million settlement in 2005 to exposing himself and subjecting women to unwanted sexual advances. The 77-year-old billionaire has denied the allegations, saying any sexual conduct that occurred had been consensual.

Then, in April 2019, news outlets reported that the Massachusetts Gaming Commission was evaluating Wynn Resorts' eligibility for a state casino license to open a location outside of Boston. Publications including the New York Times reported that the regulator found high-ranking executives at the company "helped hide the sexual misconduct allegations" against Wynn. The commission found executives did not follow company policy including its 2004 "zero-tolerance" rule against sexual harassment.

Five women, including four who worked at Richard Meier & Partners Architects LLP, accused New York City-based architect Richard Meier of inappropriately touching them or exposing himself to them. He provided a statement to the New York Times saying, "While our recollections may differ, I sincerely apologize to anyone who was offended by my behavior." After taking a six-month leave of absence, in October 2018, Meier stepped down from his leadership position. The 84-year-old architect's name still bears a great deal of clout and recognition, especially with his designing projects such as the Getty Center in Los Angeles. The firm he founded will continue to operate under its eponymous name.

A GENDER PAY GAP

There are other signs that something is amiss in CRE: a gap in industry pay.

Holly Neber, the president of CREW Networking, the professional association of women in real estate, is also the CEO of AEI Consultants based in the San Francisco Bay area. "I respect and admire all people who courageously speak up about their experiences, and as a CEO in CRE, I believe there are tangible ways that we can all take a step forward for gender equity and a more inclusive culture for women in our industry," she says.

Neber comments in her experiences, she has also worked with supportive and collaborative men, including AEI's founder who was her mentor. She says corporate leaders need to take responsibility to ensure their company cultures are inclusive, becoming more innovative, competitive and successful as a result.

But even with industry progress, work still lies ahead. CREW Network's last benchmark study in 2015 found women in commercial real estate had an average salary of $115,000 compared to men earning an average of $150,000. Their next benchmark study will be in 2020.

WHAT COMES NEXT

Despite the signs to the contrary, progress is being made, albeit not as quickly as many would hope. For example, the Time's Up movement, which is often referred to as solutions-driven steps catalyzed by the #MeToo responses, focuses on addressing inequality and injustice in the workplace. The non-profit TIME's UP works with other advocates to increase safety and equality for women through laws and corporate policies. The organization includes a Legal Defense Fund, administered by the National Women's Law Center.

Meanwhile, many companies are taking it upon themselves to make improvements and close the gap in pay. For instance, Marianne Mathieu, president of CREW New York and vice president of national agency accounts at Fidelity National Title Group, established a mentorship program where junior members can select mentors from senior members' online profiles. They can foster relationships and learn practical skills such as pay negotiation from seasoned professionals.

A CHANGE IN THE WIND

"For decades, leadership roles in the commercial real estate industry have been male-dominated. But that norm is shifting as more companies realize the importance of gender diversity," says Libby Lassiter, co-president of Bayer Properties headquartered in Birmingham, AL. She serves with another female co-president, Jami Wadkins. Lassiter notes that 52% of her company's employees at the director level or higher are women. "A diversity of perspectives leads to rich thinking about everything from business strategy to customer service.

Nancy Park, the managing partner at the law firm Best Best & Krieger's Sacramento office, also serves as the Urban Land Institute's Women's Leadership Initiative, chair of the Sacramento chapter. Before focusing on real estate transactions as an attorney, she was a real estate banker. She also sees a change in the professional landscape.

"When I started 30 years ago, I was usually the only woman in the room. Now occasionally I'm still the only woman in the room but more often there are a couple of others. I might be in the room where half of the room is women and I've even done a deal where it was all women," says Park. "So, a big change has occurred, and along the way attitudes have changed. I'm no longer a rarity or a novelty."

But Park sees gender biases can be built within the system, as a part of the process that is in place to supposedly eliminate discrimination. For example, companies will, at times, write job descriptions tailored to a person they want to fill the job, even before they post the opening. Vague descriptions and differences in salaries can become excuses for starting someone at a lower salary and not giving people the same pay raises.

"A lot of times, there are inconsistencies across the board, not making sure that everybody doing the same job and is on the same pay scale," says Park.

She explains: "Some disparities are allowed to exist saying, 'Well, Joe came in at this amount and Susan came in at that amount. We can't exactly bring Joe's salary down and we're not going to give Susan that big of a raise. So, we're just going to perpetuate it more. But everybody's getting a 5% raise. Susan will get a good raise, so what are you complaining about?'"

Park urges women to assert themselves to take opportunities and to "be in the room." As one example, when asked if they play golf, women will say, "No" even if they've taken a lesson or two. They often want to be 100% qualified before saying, "Yes, I'm good enough. I can do it, sure."

She also points out that women do not want to be seen as inserting themselves. However, Park opines if women hear about an important meeting or their boss coming in town, they should ask to attend meetings and meet with key people.

Claire Potter, professor of history at the New School, applauds high achieving women in all professions including real estate. However, she points out having one woman chairperson or even three top level executives will not mean things are better for all women or even women at that corporation. Frequently, the women can be seen as exceptions to the rule.

Potter points to Sheryl Sandberg, Facebook's COO, and the author of Lean In: Women, Work and the Will to Lead. She describes Sandberg as an enormously accomplished business woman. But Potter disagrees with the book's unstated message of "if you're not making it like I am, you're not doing the right things. You're not competing the way you should. You're not tooting your own horn the way you should," comments Potter. She adds "We don't give advice like that to men. There are not books written for men saying, 'Stop sexually harassing women at the office.'"

Potter advises women to speak up if they see sexual harassment at the office. She notes there is often a whispering network where people know someone is engaging in inappropriate behavior and there is widespread talk behind closed doors, but no one confronts the perpetrators or takes action to stop it.

The professor states that when people experience discrimination at the workplace, they often are so shocked that they just freeze. Later, at night they go home and think of 10 things they should have said. She advises people to think ahead and ask themselves, "OK, if this happens to me, what will I do? What will I say?" They can write down scripts and make a list of what they'll say so they can be prepared to professionally and effectively respond to and confront gender discrimination or sexual harassment.

Navigating the multiple forms of harassment can often be dizzying with blame and a pile-on of advice. For many, it is perhaps best to follow Freedman's advice to keep it simple and direct. "Be professional," she says. "Understand your industry. Know your inventory. Be yourself and try to find someone who believes in you, who can mentor you."

Instant Insights /

Industry Trends: Just How Far Have Women Progressed in CRE?

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